This lay report is an excerpt story from my book Primal Seduction.
This is a long story, but it highlights emotional control â and shows you what to expect from the example stories and interviews in Primal Seduction.
Steve: Iâm not trying to paint a rosy picture where there are never roadblocks on the way to taking a girl to bed. Sometimes itâs easy.
Iâve had a disproportionate amount of really easy lays because of technique and mindset, but there are girls that are going to test you, and a girl from Kiev is an example of where I had to control my emotions to lead the seduction because she tried some a LOT of things on.
So letâs talk about Julia. I was in downtown Kiev a few years ago and decided to do some daygame approaches.
Sheâs walking through the subway station looking hot and up I roll.
Her in a sushi restaurant later on in the date
I said, âPriviet, hello. I just thought you look very nice so I would like to talk to you,â and she says, âAnd what?â with a blank look.
I reiterated that she looked really nice and she says, âOK, so talk.â Iâm doing my little push and giving her the eyes and all this sort of thing to move things along but sheâs being unresponsive, giving little two word answers.
We call it âthe Russian minuteâ â the first minute or two when they just look at you blankly with a poker face, just to see what youâre made of and if youâre going to bail.
So thereâs a little red alarm ringing telling me I have to handle this. This was a moment where if I didnât control my emotions it would fizzle out. You spot these moments and responding correctly comes partly from game experience and thus familiarity, but it also relates to being centred and outcome independent.
Nothing is too serious and youâre not crestfallen if it doesnât work, even though sheâs hot. In Kiev thereâs a lot more hot girls, so thereâs more options but even if this happened in London where Iâm not going to see another girl I like as much for another month, I still wouldnât be crestfallen.
So sheâs doing this stuff and I had to manage my emotions in the first sort of thirty seconds to a minute. It was fine and I did that, but the entire pick up was like that on a microcosmic level.
Throughout the conversation she was constantly being annoying, much more than is usual or polite, and constantly testing my frame. Sheâs very rich as well, rich parents, so she sure as hell doesnât need me for my money, which I havenât got anyway.
We started walking around together for about four hours in all. First it was to some shops and she was telling me about the local area, asking what I do. I told her I teach and she replies, âOh thatâs not very exciting,â and stuff like that, being a tatty little bitch. So I have to take it on the chin and push back a little. I tease her but not so hard as to make her offended and start flapping.
She had a beautiful ass, right, so I just started to feel it with my hand and she went absolutely livid.
Proper ape-shit. Iâve since learned this with some Russian girls; you just canât do that. Russians and Ukrainians like the dominance but there are certain rules with certain girls that you donât cross and no matter how strong your frame is or who you are theyâre just not going to accept it from anybody, even Brad Pitt.
She was almost shouting at me in the street, saying, âLook Motherfucker, do not do that to me. You do not own me,â and suchlike. Sheâs scolding me but almost from a cat-like perspective. Itâs not like lowering my value because sheâs reacting to me.
I calmly said, âListen, I apologize. Iâve crossed your boundaries. Iâm sorry because I know what itâs like to have your boundaries crossedâ.
So that was another example of her not even trying to do any technique but just like really pissed off. Now maybe some guys would be rattled by that, but I just thought it was fair enough given that Iâd pushed it and crossed a line.
We were on our way to a restaurant, and I said, âLetâs go in here; this looks nice,â and she said, âNo weâre not going there; weâre going to this super-expensive place. I want to go there because I like it there,â and we go in there and everybody knows her.
The waiters know her and usher her into her seat leaving me standing there. She tells me to come sit down. Sheâs twenty years old to my then thirty-five and Iâm thinking this is wrong.
Shisha bar, earlier
Iâm a lot older and I should be in charge but at the same time Iâm on her strongest home territory so nobody is going to give me compliance. So I had to ride with it, let it roll over me.
She had the social and knowledge value the entire time. Everybody knew her in this environment and people were reacting to her, taking her order first, addressing her rather than me, and it was like the waiters were not even looking at me. I could feel the weight of social pressure lined up against me.
These were things that could make or break me actually shagging her. These are the kind of situations where a guy will blow himself out. Heâll do something inappropriate or just not be able to handle the pressure and get flustered. Then thatâs it, heâs done. This is fairly extreme.
I try to steer her towards the house and sheâs going further and further away. She decides she wants to go to a club. Iâm not leading but Iâm still steering, avoiding being led by the nose. Iâm putting my own opinion in and this kind of thing.
She already knew she was going to sleep with me, I think, but she was wasnât done testing. In her mind sheâs thinking along the lines of âI want to go to the club. I want to see what happens when heâs under social pressure.â Itâs hard to be sure. She was just a little princess.
So we were in the club owned by Vitali Klitschko. If youâve ever been to a club in Eastern Europe this is the kind of thing youâll see, especially in Ukraine.
Out come the flashbulbs, the club paparazzi with big cameras and they descend on the girls. The girls are very reactive to this. Their little spines perk up and their heads lift up and theyâre like cats purring because theyâre getting all this attention and theyâre doing all these poses. You donât see girls doing this in London.
As I watched I thought itâs really nice to see. Theyâre beautiful girls and theyâre walking around with their little heads up and they just look beautiful with their pictures being taken, but itâs just very externally referenced.
However, I still want to fuck this girl so Iâm really getting into it, but in this club I have no value at all. Iâm sitting there wearing my shitty trainers in this club, dressed like I was going out to buy a pint of milk, and all the girls are all the focus of attention.
I have to not let it fluster me despite being literally ignored at the bar and this kind of thing. It was a pretty hostile environment, and what happened afterwards was even more hostile, after Iâd fucked her.
Nick: Now a lot of men in the seduction community would talk about this and theyâd use words like âbleeding valueâ. Did you feel like that was happening? Was just standing up to it enough?
Steve: You canât react to it. Youâre in their country, the beautiful girls are being photographed and youâre just there for the ride.
I was conscious of what was happening. Five years earlier Iâd have shown a lot more of a reaction. It was obviously not going well for me but I handled it, didnât let myself flap and lose control.
There were a couple of moments in that club where she was cooing, âOh, I want more photos!â and I was like, âPrincess, youâre with me. Come on, donât be so silly,â and gave her a kiss.
And then she was like relaxing, nestling up to me and this kind of thing. That was another key moment, but not as much of the nestling as Iâd normally see because she just wasnât allowing it. Those flashing cameras were too much for her to resist.
She says, âNo, I want you in the photos,â and Iâm like, âOh, Princess, come on,â but I allowed a few photos to be taken and then she would inspect the photos and say things like, âWhy youâre not smiling? You do not look good in this photo. Take another one!â It was really annoying.
At some point I had to exert control. I started to pull her in and start nuzzling her up. Then at some point I said, âRight, Darling, enough of this now. Come on; weâve been here for an hour and thereâs not much going on. Letâs get out of hereâ.
She was stalling and demanding another drink while I put my foot down. She came with me and she was skipping along the street, very happy to come with me. Iâd long since told her where I lived and I think she might have even selected this club deliberately because she knew it was close to my apartment.
Back to the house it was simple. We banged all night. It was great. But even when it was with the sex she was still trying to wrest control from me. She was a little minx like that and very much of her own mind. Twenty years old and very self-possessed.
Only pic of me in Shisha bar
Most men would find that quite trying. The next day I wanted to see her again. She agrees and we set the meet for one oâclock that afternoon.
She doesnât show and doesnât text. Another two hours tick by and Iâm getting really pissed off. Finally she calls about half past three to say sheâs on the way. Typical princess behaviour. I tried explaining to her the concept of being on time, and sheâs reframing like Iâm losing my temper with her and Iâm being unreasonable.
She prattles on that sheâs not having this and who am I to lose my temper with her. She just didnât get it, that she had to be on time and that Iâd be pissed off.
We did meet and later that night she disappeared again to meet her friends. Predictably she demanded I come out and meet her friends. Iâd had a bit of an argument with her and I said, âI donât want to meet your friends.â I was a little paranoid due to her shitty behaviour, how connected she was, and this argument.
I was on my own in this faraway place where Iâd only been a day or two. I started to think that the friends might have been guys and I was being set up to be beaten up. Remember anxiety has been a long-standing problem for me.
I didnât want to go but nevertheless I still wanted to fuck her. So I put up with a bit of this stuff and we agreed to meet the next day. She was excessively late again and this time I really lost it. We had a to-do in the street and then in the restaurant, and her face was like thunder.
She just wouldnât stand it and I walked off. Later on she rings me up and says, âI am coming round.â She turns up two hours late. I banged the ass off her, and again we had this to-do about timing and again she wonât accept it. So I threw her out. I literally shoved her out the door.
I was staying in this rented apartment and I worried someoneâs going to come round. She knows a lot of people and she was really pissed off and volatile. She showed very little sense of responsibility or empathy.
So I was paranoid. I rang up my lettings agency and requested an emergency move. I paid a penalty fee then changed my SIM card so she couldnât contact me, and fucked off to another apartment.
Now, if you look at how it started, the seeds were there right up until I still fucked her. I went through all that trying time. We were just not compatible. It was a cultural clash and a personality clash.
The amount of shit I had to go through, the amount of emotional testing that I got and how much it affected me after four days of this was a valid concern. Looking back I was probably paranoid but maybe not, I had a bad gut feeling about what she might trigger, especially from all her fawning white knights.
I enjoyed banging her. That bit was great. I donât think you could have much more of an emotionally trying time with a girl than that. Foreign country, on your own, not knowing anyone, sheâs got high social value, sheâs rich, she knows everybody, people know her, she does what she wants, sheâs got friends, she wanted to meet them. It canât get much harder than that.
Nick: I tend not to get stories like that. Iâm not sure if thatâs because of the vibes I put out or just I lack the enthusiasm for trying girls and thus maybe my interactions with them fizzle out long before they build into a crazy story. Tom has quite a few stories like that, of girls putting him through that sort of mill. Trying to practice or perform daygame abroad is one of the hardest things you can do to test your emotional control.
Steve: The whole date was about four hours before I fucked her, so objectively it wasnât difficult, but the amount of stuff that we go through is sometimes outrageous. That happens once in a blue moon.
But these Russian girls, they do put you through that kind of thing. I know that was somewhat of an extreme example but that was just the context of that day, because we just happened to go to environments where people knew her in the town.
Nick: I think the obvious question is: do you think there were things you did wrong, early on, which meant that new fires were started causing the pick-up to be fire-fighting, or do you think that it doesnât matter what youâd done from the beginning because she was determined to lead you on this merry dance?
Steve: I donât think she was leading me on a merry dance. I think she was just living her life and she was reacting to men as she reacts to men; thatâs it.
Donât forget that girls in those countries, and especially in Ukraine, a lot of them are gold diggers. She didnât need to be a gold digger because she was already rich, and a hot twenty year old Ukrainian girl. She didnât need to play that game that the other girls had to play, so remember her value relative to the other hot girls.
She didnât have to play by their game. Sheâs younger, has money already, and doesnât need to suck up to these ugly-looking men over there. So imagine her value.
Note: If youâre an older guy reading this and you want to meet younger women, check out my list of the best dating sites to meet younger women. Youâll find it very helpful.
Sheâs too young to have developed any maturity. Mummy and daddy are buying her houses. Sheâs got three houses, and she didnât need to play any. A girl wonât sleep with you unless she respects you.
She had enough respect for me to sleep with me. She was sufficiently intrigued from the opener and it got stronger as I refused to wilt under the pressure.
My note 2018
If youâve read all of that, respect!
Would I bother now, as a 43 year old man? Nah, fuck that.
It was trying enough at the time. It was freezing cold at that time of year, and I only approached 5 girls before I met her and ended up sleeping with her. I was lazy enough to think, fuck it Iâll do it. It was too cold to do lots of outdoor approaches.
Nowadays Iâd probably bail earlier on, get her number and maybe approach a few more over the next day.