This lay report is an excerpt story from my book Primal Seduction.
This is a long story, but it highlights emotional control – and shows you what to expect from the example stories and interviews in Primal Seduction.
Steve: I’m not trying to paint a rosy picture where there are never roadblocks on the way to taking a girl to bed. Sometimes it’s easy.
I’ve had a disproportionate amount of really easy lays because of technique and mindset, but there are girls that are going to test you, and a girl from Kiev is an example of where I had to control my emotions to lead the seduction because she tried some a LOT of things on.
So let’s talk about Julia. I was in downtown Kiev a few years ago and decided to do some daygame approaches.
She’s walking through the subway station looking hot and up I roll.
Her in a sushi restaurant later on in the date
I said, “Priviet, hello. I just thought you look very nice so I would like to talk to you,” and she says, “And what?” with a blank look.
I reiterated that she looked really nice and she says, “OK, so talk.” I’m doing my little push and giving her the eyes and all this sort of thing to move things along but she’s being unresponsive, giving little two word answers.
We call it ‘the Russian minute’ – the first minute or two when they just look at you blankly with a poker face, just to see what you’re made of and if you’re going to bail.
So there’s a little red alarm ringing telling me I have to handle this. This was a moment where if I didn’t control my emotions it would fizzle out. You spot these moments and responding correctly comes partly from game experience and thus familiarity, but it also relates to being centred and outcome independent.
Nothing is too serious and you’re not crestfallen if it doesn’t work, even though she’s hot. In Kiev there’s a lot more hot girls, so there’s more options but even if this happened in London where I’m not going to see another girl I like as much for another month, I still wouldn’t be crestfallen.
So she’s doing this stuff and I had to manage my emotions in the first sort of thirty seconds to a minute. It was fine and I did that, but the entire pick up was like that on a microcosmic level.
Throughout the conversation she was constantly being annoying, much more than is usual or polite, and constantly testing my frame. She’s very rich as well, rich parents, so she sure as hell doesn’t need me for my money, which I haven’t got anyway.
We started walking around together for about four hours in all. First it was to some shops and she was telling me about the local area, asking what I do. I told her I teach and she replies, “Oh that’s not very exciting,” and stuff like that, being a tatty little bitch. So I have to take it on the chin and push back a little. I tease her but not so hard as to make her offended and start flapping.
She had a beautiful ass, right, so I just started to feel it with my hand and she went absolutely livid.
Proper ape-shit. I’ve since learned this with some Russian girls; you just can’t do that. Russians and Ukrainians like the dominance but there are certain rules with certain girls that you don’t cross and no matter how strong your frame is or who you are they’re just not going to accept it from anybody, even Brad Pitt.
She was almost shouting at me in the street, saying, “Look Motherfucker, do not do that to me. You do not own me,” and suchlike. She’s scolding me but almost from a cat-like perspective. It’s not like lowering my value because she’s reacting to me.
I calmly said, “Listen, I apologize. I’ve crossed your boundaries. I’m sorry because I know what it’s like to have your boundaries crossed”.
So that was another example of her not even trying to do any technique but just like really pissed off. Now maybe some guys would be rattled by that, but I just thought it was fair enough given that I’d pushed it and crossed a line.
We were on our way to a restaurant, and I said, “Let’s go in here; this looks nice,” and she said, “No we’re not going there; we’re going to this super-expensive place. I want to go there because I like it there,” and we go in there and everybody knows her.
The waiters know her and usher her into her seat leaving me standing there. She tells me to come sit down. She’s twenty years old to my then thirty-five and I’m thinking this is wrong.
Shisha bar, earlier
I’m a lot older and I should be in charge but at the same time I’m on her strongest home territory so nobody is going to give me compliance. So I had to ride with it, let it roll over me.
She had the social and knowledge value the entire time. Everybody knew her in this environment and people were reacting to her, taking her order first, addressing her rather than me, and it was like the waiters were not even looking at me. I could feel the weight of social pressure lined up against me.
These were things that could make or break me actually shagging her. These are the kind of situations where a guy will blow himself out. He’ll do something inappropriate or just not be able to handle the pressure and get flustered. Then that’s it, he’s done. This is fairly extreme.
I try to steer her towards the house and she’s going further and further away. She decides she wants to go to a club. I’m not leading but I’m still steering, avoiding being led by the nose. I’m putting my own opinion in and this kind of thing.
She already knew she was going to sleep with me, I think, but she was wasn’t done testing. In her mind she’s thinking along the lines of “I want to go to the club. I want to see what happens when he’s under social pressure.” It’s hard to be sure. She was just a little princess.
So we were in the club owned by Vitali Klitschko. If you’ve ever been to a club in Eastern Europe this is the kind of thing you’ll see, especially in Ukraine.
Out come the flashbulbs, the club paparazzi with big cameras and they descend on the girls. The girls are very reactive to this. Their little spines perk up and their heads lift up and they’re like cats purring because they’re getting all this attention and they’re doing all these poses. You don’t see girls doing this in London.
As I watched I thought it’s really nice to see. They’re beautiful girls and they’re walking around with their little heads up and they just look beautiful with their pictures being taken, but it’s just very externally referenced.
However, I still want to fuck this girl so I’m really getting into it, but in this club I have no value at all. I’m sitting there wearing my shitty trainers in this club, dressed like I was going out to buy a pint of milk, and all the girls are all the focus of attention.
I have to not let it fluster me despite being literally ignored at the bar and this kind of thing. It was a pretty hostile environment, and what happened afterwards was even more hostile, after I’d fucked her.
Nick: Now a lot of men in the seduction community would talk about this and they’d use words like ‘bleeding value’. Did you feel like that was happening? Was just standing up to it enough?
Steve: You can’t react to it. You’re in their country, the beautiful girls are being photographed and you’re just there for the ride.
I was conscious of what was happening. Five years earlier I’d have shown a lot more of a reaction. It was obviously not going well for me but I handled it, didn’t let myself flap and lose control.
There were a couple of moments in that club where she was cooing, “Oh, I want more photos!” and I was like, “Princess, you’re with me. Come on, don’t be so silly,” and gave her a kiss.
And then she was like relaxing, nestling up to me and this kind of thing. That was another key moment, but not as much of the nestling as I’d normally see because she just wasn’t allowing it. Those flashing cameras were too much for her to resist.
She says, “No, I want you in the photos,” and I’m like, “Oh, Princess, come on,” but I allowed a few photos to be taken and then she would inspect the photos and say things like, “Why you’re not smiling? You do not look good in this photo. Take another one!” It was really annoying.
At some point I had to exert control. I started to pull her in and start nuzzling her up. Then at some point I said, “Right, Darling, enough of this now. Come on; we’ve been here for an hour and there’s not much going on. Let’s get out of here”.
She was stalling and demanding another drink while I put my foot down. She came with me and she was skipping along the street, very happy to come with me. I’d long since told her where I lived and I think she might have even selected this club deliberately because she knew it was close to my apartment.
Back to the house it was simple. We banged all night. It was great. But even when it was with the sex she was still trying to wrest control from me. She was a little minx like that and very much of her own mind. Twenty years old and very self-possessed.
Only pic of me in Shisha bar
Most men would find that quite trying. The next day I wanted to see her again. She agrees and we set the meet for one o’clock that afternoon.
She doesn’t show and doesn’t text. Another two hours tick by and I’m getting really pissed off. Finally she calls about half past three to say she’s on the way. Typical princess behaviour. I tried explaining to her the concept of being on time, and she’s reframing like I’m losing my temper with her and I’m being unreasonable.
She prattles on that she’s not having this and who am I to lose my temper with her. She just didn’t get it, that she had to be on time and that I’d be pissed off.
We did meet and later that night she disappeared again to meet her friends. Predictably she demanded I come out and meet her friends. I’d had a bit of an argument with her and I said, “I don’t want to meet your friends.” I was a little paranoid due to her shitty behaviour, how connected she was, and this argument.
I was on my own in this faraway place where I’d only been a day or two. I started to think that the friends might have been guys and I was being set up to be beaten up. Remember anxiety has been a long-standing problem for me.
I didn’t want to go but nevertheless I still wanted to fuck her. So I put up with a bit of this stuff and we agreed to meet the next day. She was excessively late again and this time I really lost it. We had a to-do in the street and then in the restaurant, and her face was like thunder.
She just wouldn’t stand it and I walked off. Later on she rings me up and says, “I am coming round.” She turns up two hours late. I banged the ass off her, and again we had this to-do about timing and again she won’t accept it. So I threw her out. I literally shoved her out the door.
I was staying in this rented apartment and I worried someone’s going to come round. She knows a lot of people and she was really pissed off and volatile. She showed very little sense of responsibility or empathy.
So I was paranoid. I rang up my lettings agency and requested an emergency move. I paid a penalty fee then changed my SIM card so she couldn’t contact me, and fucked off to another apartment.
Now, if you look at how it started, the seeds were there right up until I still fucked her. I went through all that trying time. We were just not compatible. It was a cultural clash and a personality clash.
The amount of shit I had to go through, the amount of emotional testing that I got and how much it affected me after four days of this was a valid concern. Looking back I was probably paranoid but maybe not, I had a bad gut feeling about what she might trigger, especially from all her fawning white knights.
I enjoyed banging her. That bit was great. I don’t think you could have much more of an emotionally trying time with a girl than that. Foreign country, on your own, not knowing anyone, she’s got high social value, she’s rich, she knows everybody, people know her, she does what she wants, she’s got friends, she wanted to meet them. It can’t get much harder than that.
Nick: I tend not to get stories like that. I’m not sure if that’s because of the vibes I put out or just I lack the enthusiasm for trying girls and thus maybe my interactions with them fizzle out long before they build into a crazy story. Tom has quite a few stories like that, of girls putting him through that sort of mill. Trying to practice or perform daygame abroad is one of the hardest things you can do to test your emotional control.
Steve: The whole date was about four hours before I fucked her, so objectively it wasn’t difficult, but the amount of stuff that we go through is sometimes outrageous. That happens once in a blue moon.
But these Russian girls, they do put you through that kind of thing. I know that was somewhat of an extreme example but that was just the context of that day, because we just happened to go to environments where people knew her in the town.
Nick: I think the obvious question is: do you think there were things you did wrong, early on, which meant that new fires were started causing the pick-up to be fire-fighting, or do you think that it doesn’t matter what you’d done from the beginning because she was determined to lead you on this merry dance?
Steve: I don’t think she was leading me on a merry dance. I think she was just living her life and she was reacting to men as she reacts to men; that’s it.
Don’t forget that girls in those countries, and especially in Ukraine, a lot of them are gold diggers. She didn’t need to be a gold digger because she was already rich, and a hot twenty year old Ukrainian girl. She didn’t need to play that game that the other girls had to play, so remember her value relative to the other hot girls.
She didn’t have to play by their game. She’s younger, has money already, and doesn’t need to suck up to these ugly-looking men over there. So imagine her value.
Note: If you’re an older guy reading this and you want to meet younger women, check out my list of the best dating sites to meet younger women. You’ll find it very helpful.
She’s too young to have developed any maturity. Mummy and daddy are buying her houses. She’s got three houses, and she didn’t need to play any. A girl won’t sleep with you unless she respects you.
She had enough respect for me to sleep with me. She was sufficiently intrigued from the opener and it got stronger as I refused to wilt under the pressure.
My note 2018
If you’ve read all of that, respect!
Would I bother now, as a 43 year old man? Nah, fuck that.
It was trying enough at the time. It was freezing cold at that time of year, and I only approached 5 girls before I met her and ended up sleeping with her. I was lazy enough to think, fuck it I’ll do it. It was too cold to do lots of outdoor approaches.
Nowadays I’d probably bail earlier on, get her number and maybe approach a few more over the next day.